Rasheeda Bhagat

Micro credit not moving in India: Prof Yunus

Prof Muhammad Yunus

Chennai , Oct. 14

After years of waiting for Prof Muhammad Yunus, the Managing Director of Grameen Bank, to bag a Nobel, "all of Bangladesh" has erupted into a mammoth celebration, an elated Prof Yunus told Business Line in a telephonic interview, and briefly outlined his plans for focusing on the social entrepreneur side of business.

Excerpts:

So how does it feel to finally get the Nobel?

Oh it feels wonderful. I remember you had asked about it the last time we met (in 1998). It's so exciting. It's an unbelievable feeling that you did something and the whole world thinks it's a good... worthwhile thing and is applauding you. That recognition is important for us because we want to draw the attention of people, particularly policy makers, to the issues that we support. The policy makers who didn't pay much attention, or paid only half attention, this Prize will change a lot of things for them. And we'll have a chance to explain to them why this is important.

I'm sure we can persuade them that what we're doing is very important. For example, in India it (micro credit) is not moving...

It has slowed down.

Yes, it has become very, very slow and all because of policy decisions, nothing else. People are there and they have demonstrated again and again and worked throughout India — southern, eastern or western India — they've worked everywhere. But micro credit is not picking up the way it has picked up in Bangladesh.

I remember you had told me in 1998 that Dr Manmohan Singh as the Finance Minister of India had visited you at the Grameen Bank and discussed for hours why micro credit had worked in Bangladesh but was not working in India.

Yes, he had. And this time around he can go back to it and ask what is it that we are not doing.

What do you think we're doing wrong?

It is basic decisions... that yes, institutions can do it, yes, they can lend money and we'll allow it, we can create a wholesale fund; a wholesale fund that can provide the funding to the NGOs, and we can create a micro credit bank legislation. So that the NGOs can convert themselves into micro credit banks, the banks themselves can create micro credit banks, and then set up a regulatory authority. The newly created breed of banks can be regulated to ensure they do good quality work and have all the ingredients of doing an excellent financial job in helping the poor.

They are so many... so many poor in India, as there are in Bangladesh, who need this help. And we should not underestimate the ability of poor people.

You had also said that if this can work in an Islamic country; you've had so much opposition from the Mullahs there...

Oh yes, we have those problems here but India doesn't have them. With the new breed of young people coming up in India they will see the tremendous possibility of micro credit. These are the kind of issues that need to be raised with your Government.

But then India needs one dedicated person.. a relentless crusader like Prof Yunus. You've given your life to this cause...

Well, you see in any environment, dedicated people are created; dedicated people are not born. They turn into dedicated persons because of the work they do. You need to provide the opportunity to create hundreds and thousands... even million... of dedicated people.

Are you disappointed that you did not get the Nobel for Economics? Why did they decide to give you the Peace prize?

Well, they had to decide. The way I explained it... I said the basic core of Grameen Bank is economics, and then you have the poverty and other things. I'm questioning several tenets of economics and I'm redesigning that economics. So that way it has a lot of economic contribution in it. But we have to understand that maybe the peace people's group in the Nobel committee, they identified us first for the peace prize. Some day the economics people will re-investigate (the world of micro credit)... we don't know.

Perhaps if you were a Professor in Harvard or Oxford, they might have conferred the prize on you for Economics.

Yeah, absolutely.

But of course a Nobel Peace is also a big thing.

It is.

So what is the mood like at home, in your country?

Oh, the whole of Bangladesh is in a mood of celebration, everybody is so delighted that something has happened for the whole nation... it is not only a Nobel Prize for Grameen, but a Nobel Prize for Bangladesh... so we are all sharing it and celebrating.

What are your plans for the immediate future?

First of all to draw the attention of world leaders to micro credit. Again I'm talking of something called social business enterprise. Business can be different. Does it always have to be for moneymaking, for maximising profits? It could be turned into... there could be business for poor people without focus on the profit part of it. Where by definition, nobody wants profits back... they want profits to stay with the company and to expand it so that more and more people can be rich. So I'm trying to create such instances of social business enterprises. This is one of the areas I'll be working on for a while.

Would you say this is as much a prize for the poor women of Bangladesh?

Oh yes, this is not only my award, it is their award as much as mine, and they are very proud. Grameen is their enterprise; every staff of Grameen Bank, every borrower of Grameen bank shares this prize. They are fantastically excited about the whole thing.

All the 6.5 million women from all the villages of Bangladesh, who have borrowed from Grameen... this prize is for them.

Response may be sent to rasheeda@thehindu.co.in

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